April Face-to-face Scheduling/Agenda

[Westbrook]

After the great success of our Q1 Face-to-Face (no kidding, we got featured in a podcast) it's time to start thinking about scheduling and agenda building for our next face-to-face. 🎉

ACTION REQUESTED: We're looking to schedule 2 separate 2-hour sessions around the week of the 15th in April. To support that, please share your availability for the middle of April on this when2meet.

From the standpoint of the Web Components Community Group, there are currently presentations coming together focusing on Open Styleable Shadow Roots and Declarative Custom Elements. If you'd like to participate in the ongoing conversation around these two subjects, check out w3c/webcomponents-cg#78, and w3c/webcomponents-cg#79 respectively to see when groups will be gathering in that name of those efforts in the interim.

In the comments below please share any thoughts you might have on the agenda, meeting "venue" (last time we used Google Meet well enough, but happy to have better suggestions), and anyone we should ensure can join various conversations.

[smaug----]

I wonder if we could have the f2f one week earlier, or two weeks later. Some relevant Mozilla folks might be a bit busy Apr 15-26 (there just happens to be two consecutive meetups during those weeks).

[Westbrook]

@smaug----, thanks for the info. We want to see as many lovely Mozillians join the convo as possible, so I've moved the date range back two weeks. Please share availability in the updated link in the description above or at https://www.when2meet.com/?23874110-FaIek

It would be great if we could get availability from everyone before March 22nd, so we can have this on everyone's calendar well beforehand. 🤞🏼

[Westbrook]

@rniwa @mfreed7 @annevk @keithamus @bkardell @zcorpan and more, how are your availabilities looking for this gathering?

[annevk]

I'd prefer seeing somewhat concrete proposals first. Usually a meeting is scheduled to work through specific technical issues, not to have open-ended discussion.

[mfreed7]

I'd prefer seeing somewhat concrete proposals first. Usually a meeting is scheduled to work through specific technical issues, not to have open-ended discussion.

Open ended discussions are the most efficient time to provide input on things that will affect the overall direction of the API. It'd be unfortunate if all features needed to be fully fleshed out before they got their first WHATWG rejection.

@rniwa @mfreed7 @annevk @keithamus @bkardell @zcorpan and more, how are your availabilities looking for this gathering?

I added my availability.

[Westbrook]

@annevk, I reached out with a pretty long runway to get availability and didn't have agenda info at the time, but we'll have a structure to the conversation. However, I do agree with @mfreed7 that open discussion can be a very powerful part of developing for the future the way that has been brought up by several implementors (including yourself) as recently as January's face-to-face.

Not to set anything in stone, but the Web Components Community Group has been meeting on an almost weekly basis to address the action items from our last face-to-face. The top three or four items for discussion persist:

1. Scoped Element Registries
   • we're working on getting in-person reportable feedback and findings from the Chromium prototype to help clarify next steps for all implementors
2. Cross Root ARIA
   • a progress report on @behowell's prototyping and practical feedback from teams at WebKit and Firefox as to whether it's something we can support getting a contribution to their implementations of
3. Open Stylable Shadow Roots
   • use cases!
   • proposals
   • demos
   • scoping, rescoping, dividing into one or more paths forward
4. Declarative Custom Elements
   • it's time, and while it's a thorny complicated concept we've been gathering lots to discuss that will benefit from in-person attention across the whole implementor community

Beyond that, this would also be a great place to hopefully get insight on things like:

• @tabatkins and @fantasai's position on [selectors] Pseudo-class to indicate when a slot has content w3c/csswg-drafts#6867 and Multiple stylesheets per file w3c/csswg-drafts#5629 and [cssom] Can we lift the restriction on constructed flag for adoptedStylesheets? w3c/csswg-drafts#10013
• hear what implementors have been thinking about as far as specs and APIs, we'd love to have everyone join the WCCG's regular meetings but realize that's not always possible. We want to know what we as a community group can support the collection of you all in bringing to life, too.
• there's also something to be said about triaging and cleaning up this issues list as a weeded garden is most likely to grow, etc., etc., platitudes 😉

Hopefully this positions this in the "want to attend" column of your schedule in the timeframe outlined in https://www.when2meet.com/?23874110-FaIek. If not, how can we make this something that more implementors like yourself would be excited to partake in?

[Westbrook]

Looks like 3 May from 12pm ET to 3pm ET is the winner here. Unless there are any concerns with that, I will add the invite to https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=o25bim5rvcu42mfnqilirpmp44@group.calendar.google.com later this afternoon. I can invite people directly, if that's beneficial, or simply have it listed there for people to subscribe (we have other WCCG events listed there, too).

Last time around we used Google Meet, which will require three separate call URLs. Feel free to share any better solutions around gathering everyone. We can start to structure the agenda over the next month, so if there's anything missing above, please give a shout below!

[mfreed7]

I can create a single Meet link that will work for the three hours. It's generally better not to share those links widely, but @Westbrook perhaps reach out to me and we can figure out a good way to publish it?

[rniwa]

This meeting is coming up in 1.5 weeks. Do we have an agenda & meet link?

[justinfagnani]

It looks like @Westbrook has been collating something of an agenda above and in w3c/webcomponents-cg#93

If we have time, I would like to throw a very early discussion of a DOM update scheduling API on the agenda. This is something that's been top-of-mind for me very recently as I've dug into signals and web components integration, and I think it intersects with template instantiation and declarative custom elements as well. I'll open an issue asap to sketch out what I see as a problem to address.

[Westbrook]

@justinfagnani sounds like a powerful topic. Looking forward to the issue. If you have thoughts on goals you might have around bringing this to next week's meeting, as opposed to the Q3 meeting or TPAC after that, would be great to see in the OP. 🙏🏼

[Westbrook]

Thanks for everyone's patience as we get ready to gather next week. Here's the meeting information:

Friday May 3rd
12pm - 3pm ET (timezones)

We will gather via this meeting link which should be good for the whole three-hour session.

Agenda
I suggest we take two 5 or 10-minute breaks through the session, which leaves us with three 50-minute segments to cover any number of topics including, but not exclusive to:

• Scoped Element Registries (could easily be a whole 50-minute segment)
  • The community has been gathering feedback from Chrome's prototype, it may be useful to review issues therein to ensure they do not become normative bugs
  • @sorvell to discuss creation time registry resolution
    • [React 19] Support scoped custom element registries (i.e, react with Custom Elements being rendered in a shadow root) facebook/react#28938
  • The following issues have been left unaddressed by the current spec, but may be valuable to include therein:
    • Finding a definition for disconnected elements #1040
    • Consider future expansion to allow using a registry without new API #1043
• DOM Scheduling, is it a good target to drive towards? (~10 minutes)
  • Idea: A tree-aware task scheduler #1055
• Cross Root Aria (~15 minutes)
  • @behowell proposal here has landed in the AOM repo, it's possible there is no discussion to be hand beyond that, but @annevk has opened the following issue referencing the proposal, is it worth discussing this in person?
    • Reference Target feedback: nesting inside <label> and other implicit relationships aom#209
• Open Stylable Shadow Roots (~15 minutes)
  • @knowler and @michaelwarren1106 have been gathering use cases to share back to implementors as we search for a path forward here
• CSS additions (~20 minutes)
  • Not sure if it is productive to discuss without @tabatkins or @fantasai, but it would be great to move these topics forward
    • [selectors] Pseudo-class to indicate when a slot has content w3c/csswg-drafts#6867
    • Multiple stylesheets per file w3c/csswg-drafts#5629
    • [cssom] Can we lift the restriction on constructed flag for adoptedStylesheets? w3c/csswg-drafts#10013
• Declarative Custom Elements (a whole 50-minute segment?)
  • It's everyone's favorite topic and we've been gathering use cases and possible paths forward
  • Chapters
    • Why start with HTML Modules (@justinfagnani)
    • The broader features that affect structuring a solution here
    • How can the CG best support implementors to a solution here?

These topics put us right at time, if we move expeditiously, but if there are better or different subjects we should cover, please share below. If we break the three segments into the following we could reorder them as best supports the presence of any specifically important implementor, were they not available for the whole session.

1. Scoped Custom Element Registries
2. Potpourri
3. Declarative Custom Elements